After another session of testing with Nick, where we played the Solar Flare deck, and the Ramp (RG) against my Mono Red, with me playing the Ramp deck. I went 4-6 playing ramp against Mono R, so that was not as dominating as the previous 6-0 record Mono Red showed, but it was still positive for Mono R. I expect that the real ratio is somewhere in between those 6-0 and 6-4 records. Nick played Solar Flare to something close to even. We noted that that deck had to mulligan quite a bit, and had some mana problems, as three color decks are likely to do.
In any event, it seemed like things were working out okay, and the SCG results showed quite a bit of these decks being played, as well as little white creatures, which cards like Arc Trail and Geistflame are not terrible against. Mirran Crusader and Mikaeus are not problems for Red, and only Hero of Bladehold or perhaps Gavony Township represent bigger problems.
So, given this information, and the fun I was having with the deck, I decided to go ahead and purchase the cards on Magic Online. It was a bit more money than I really wanted to spend (about $100), mostly on the back of ~$17 Koths, but the deck also had alot of other cards that were $1-4, which added up when considered across the 4-ofs.
In any event, I put together: (in casting cost order)
1x Gut Shot
4x Stromkirk Noble
3x Reckless Waif
3x Geistflame
4x Stormblood Berserker
4x Shrine of Burning Rage
4x Tezzeret's Gambit
4x Volt Charge
4x Koth, of the Hammer
2x Chandra, the Firebrand
3x Devil's Play
24x Mountain
Sideboard:
3x Vulshok Berserker
4x Arc Trail
1x Geistflame
3x Manic Vandal
1x Red Sun's Zenith
1x Something
2x Mountain (only had 13 cards that might have been relevant)
I played a few games (okay, maybe more than a few) in the practice room, and felt like I won my fair share, but I was playing against what might not have exactly been the best players or decks.
The biggest problem I ran into was mana. If I kept drawing lands, and a few spells, it felt like I was playing on another level, with a fair amount of removal for the swath of creature decks you see on MTGO, and removal for the bigger threats. I lost a fair number of games on 2 land, with all three drops and Geistflames.
Manic Vandal, Berserker, and Arc Trail were all very good out of the sideboard. I probably don't need the Geistflame.
I probably need another land in the main deck, but I'm not sure what to cut for it. Perhaps a Devil's Play, but I am leery of adding land, and cutting high drops. The Gut Shot won me one game, that Geistflame might not have, but I never got it combined with a one drop and a Berserker, for the full on crushing.
I often sided out Berserkers, when I sided out Waifs, to bring in Arc Trails. You really need the full amount of 1's to power up this 2, and I know from previous testing Arc Trail + Berserker isn't exactly what you want to be doing on 4.
I'll start recording some results going forward, and keep you posted with how this is going.
Tuesday, November 15, 2011
Thursday, November 3, 2011
Testing with Nick on Halloween - Mono Red
My friend Nick came over to do some testing Monday night, which happened to be Halloween, who knew? Anyway, he put some time in against my Mono-Red planeswalker deck with a few different decks.
First on the docket was a version of the Wolf Run Ramp deck that has been taking down quite a few tournaments. It has 3 main-deck Slagstorms, and Beast Withins have quite a few targets. It also has Viridian Emissaries to do some early blocking, or try to. All of these seem fairly good against general aggro.
VS. Wolf Run Ramp
The Mono-Red deck ran over this version of the ramp deck. In 6 games, he won zero. However, there are a few mitigating factors:
1) There were no Dungrove Elders in the deck. Dungrove is a early blocker that is hard to remove, though it does tend to be somewhat underpowered in decks with 6 non-forests, and 5 non-forest mana producers.
2) These were Nick's first 6 games with the deck. Presumably over time, he would get better with the mulligans, etc.
3) I don't think he ever cast a Solemn in a relevant scenario, and he never got a Emissary killed that I didn't want dead.
4) He never really seemed to get off to a fast start. No T3 Titans, etc.
5) They were all unsideboarded, but I don't think the match-up gets that much better for them when I take out Arc Trail, and they put in a 4th semi-useless Slagstorm
Notes on this matchup:
1) Geistflame kills Emissary when you want to. Killing Inkmoths prevented some last-ditch blocking. In the Elder version, killing Elves would be quite excellent.
2) Berserker is very hard to block. His blocking clause is quite good.
3) Koth was quite good. He ate a Beast Within a few times.
4) Could have used RSZ vs Wurmcoil, but Devil's Play to the dome was quite effective. I feel like I want one more.
5) This red deck has almost no problem with Slagstorm. Slagstorm on the draw is too slow to kill a Vampire, or often a Berserker. Getting RR early enough to kill anything was a difficult proposition.
6) Arc Trail was very marginal. I often cast it to do a point to myself, to trigger the Berserker. Having some other 1cc guy to swap in here would be nice, in match-ups where I don't need the removal of Arc Trail. I did use Chandra to double an Arc Trail, when I probably should not have cast Arc Trail at all, but those are the kind of things you learn playing the games...
I do not think this is a 100% win matchup, I'll be playing a few more games to test it out myself, but it does seem at least favorable. Nick was "discouraged" from playing a few more, perhaps understandably, so we moved on to some other options.
VS. Solar Flare:
These games were much more interactive. My draws felt way better, but a Doom Blade on my attacking Noble on T2 often stranded my otherwise T2 Berserker in my hand. The deck was mostly removal, so it really felt like creatures were not a good win condition past turn 2 or so. Flashing back a Doom Blade with Snapcaster was quite common, so the bigness of my creatures definitely did not save them in this match-up.
All my creatures were basically unblockable, but they were all basically dead given any amount of available mana. It felt like I could play something like 8 Inferno Titans from turn 6 on, and none of them would get to attack. Devils Play really shone here as a finisher.
Many of the games were "ended" by Consecrated Sphinx. It attacked Koth or Chandra well, and took a series of burn spells to finish off. It was painfully slow to kill me, even with the infinite card draw. Sun Titan was similarly non-impressive as a finisher, since it often was just a terrible Primeval Titan (getting back one land, instead of tutoring two out). Grave Titan or Wurmcoil was their only real finisher, and Unburial Ritsing it made it seem like they were really unkillable. It was probably a mistake to ever try to kill any of their "finishers", but rather just burn them out.
Ultimating Koth was relatively easy, but it did not always win the game. Nick kept saying how it would win me the game, but playing a Grave + Sphynx every turn for 2-3 turns was enough to overwhelm me if I didn't draw enough Mountains. I was often torn between ultimating Koth on turn 5 with a proliferate effect, and waiting for turn 6 to keep the Koth around. I feel like now, that if they could O-Ring it they would on their turn after I play the Koth, if they can't, they're unlikely to be able to do it the next turn either.
I did draw a ton of mountains, between playing 24, and 4x Tezzeret's Gambit, so I was very glad to draw all the Devil's Plays I drew. I felt like I wanted a couple more of these, just for this scenario, since a doubled one (via Koth or Chandra) would almost always win the game against a T6 tap out for a threat.
The non-creature threats were pretty awesome. They do have O-Ring (one of the better cards against this deck), but it has something like 20 reasonable targets, for their three spells. I kept a hand of 2xShrine, 5x Land, and it was a fairly easy victory. Any sort of planeswalker off that start is pure gold, and due to the nature of the match-up, you can just sit on 3 untapped mana until the game ends.
It felt like the games I lost, I drew 12 land, and watched the Esper deck painfully slowly find some way to kill me. There were some games where I got out to a fast start into a Wrath, or I got off to a fast start into not a Wrath, and those were fairly painful for either side.
Tezzeret's Gambit was absolutely golden in this match-up. It was ultra-slow, and being able to keep hitting land drops, and casually pump for 2-4 more damage was quite good, while building up a planeswalker, artifact, etc.
The SF deck seemed so threat-light, that a card like Surgical Extraction in response to an Unburial Rites would likely give enough time to win. It doesn't handle a resolved threat though, so likely the way you'd want to go would be to add some more non-creature threats. (Ratchet Bomb to "counter" O rings, and the match-up is so slow using it on a 6 is semi-reasonable)
Overall the red deck won 6 games, and lost 5 (all unsideboarded). None of the games were real blowouts, the SF deck has a crazy amount of removal between the Doom Blades, O Rings, Lilianas, Snapcasters, and Wraths. Nick didn't keep any hands without at least some of this, which is likely advisable.
The Arc Trails felt pretty terrible here, I was often 1-ing myself, which is far from ideal. But of course, this is the matchup where they are probably worst. (along with the ramp matchup)
Perhaps the Arc Trails just aren't that great. They'd certainly be better as a Gut Shot, or Shock/Geistflame to accelerate out a T2/3 Berserker, since most of the time I cast Arc Trail it was to kill a 2/1 "Beater" or to power out a T4 Berserker, not exactly blisteringly fast...
Timely did gain the flare deck alot of life, sometimes as much as 18, but the creatures just didn't seem all that relevant. Often, they had so much removal, or I drew non-creatures, and they'd just get the 6 life out of it. That said, I wasn't one-shotting them with an Inferno Titan, so they did often get a turn out of it.
RECAP:
I am sold on the core of the deck.
Counters:
4x Stromkirk Noble
4x Stormblood Berserker
4x Koth of the Hammer
4x Shrine of the Burning Rage
Proliferate:
4x Tezzeret's Gambit
4x Volt Charge
All of these cards are seriously good, and work very well together.
Finisher:
2x Devil's Play
The rest of the cards are arguable as to whether they should be kept or pitched.
Chandra 3.0:
This is the only option that actually combos with the other cards in the deck, but it is clearly the weakest option. Doubling up on Devil's Play, or the proliferate spells is very solid. The 1 damage is pretty marginal however, and her ultimate is not exactly amazing. I'd much rather have Chandra 1.0 in this slot, since she kills the big threats that are running around, rather than scratching their paint.
That said, Chandra 3.0 is a planeswalker, she does protect herself, she does combo with Koth on T4, or with any of the spells to do some powerful stuff.
I feel like playing two is defensible, and playing 4 is too many, so 2 or 3 is the way to go with this planeswalker.
Geistflame:
Doubling this with Chandra isn't exactly a good idea, and it does only do one damage, but:
1) It's an Instant, which is very good these days (Inkmoth Nexus, Timely Reinforcements, Snapcaster Mage)
2) It is good with Berserker (killing double blockers, and bloodthirsting it T3)
3) It has flashback, giving some minor utility late game.
4) Works well with shrine, since it is two spells.
I keep thinking about this as a "superior" Arc Trail. Sure, it's 5 mana instead of 2, but it's an instant, and it costs 1 instead of 2. It is pretty expensive for the last three, and isn't exactly a combo with Devil's Play, but it is a reasonable cheap removal spell.
I'd want at least a couple of these, maybe up to the full set.
Arc Trail impressed me quite a bit in the previous version of mono red (Inferno Titan), in that it was a cheap 2:1 that wrecked creature match-ups.
Now, it's somewhat weak at powering up Stormblood Berserker, and instants are way better at protecting planeswalkers. This is pretty good when combined with Chandra...
I'd play some in the sideboard at least, for creature match-ups?
These function the role of "cheap spell that powers up berserker and deals with early drops".
Whether they are better than Geistflame until that is maxed out is a matter for discussion. Neither of these are very good with Chandra, but both are at least instants.
Both of these are good finishers. Red Sun's Zenith is at full value each time, and good against Unburial Rites, Wurmcoil Engine, Chandra's Phoenix. Devil's Play is like a RSZ you don't have to draw the second time, which is pretty awesome kill-advantage.
I'm sold on at least 2 of this effect, and having 4 is not out of the question. (at 4, one is probably RSZ, just for variety)
I'm pretty sold on having 0 of this type of creature. I'd much rather spend 6 mana, and have them be dead, rather than spend 6 mana, and have them die next turn, if they don't kill my creature. Doom Blade, Wrath, and the like will likely be sitting in their hand once I get to turn 10 or so anyway, so this isn't that guaranteed to kill them. This loses out to the more hasty damage of Devil's Play.
Currently I was playing 1x Lavamancer, 1x Arsonist, because the Waif was annoying to print out. Neither Lavamancer nor Arsonist did much of anything. Waif is almost certainly superior. It's important to have 1-drop creatures to power up the Berserker. Spells do it by turn 3 at the earliest (outside Gut Shot)
I'd want at least 3 in this category, with 4 not being out of the question. Berserker really seems that good. With 6 one-drops, I sometimes had to hold my Berserkers until T4. I wouldn't mind having 8.
So, if we include 24 land, and the 26 cards above, that leaves 10 slots.
2x Chandra seems good.
3x Geistflame for the advantages above
3x Reckless Waif
1x Devil's Play (or RSZ) for additional finishers
and....
+1x Chandra, since the Devil's Play gives additional outs? (8x 3cc Proliferates, 3x X-spells with flashback?)
+1 Reckless Waif to double down on the early big stupid creatures?
+1 X-spell, to give a bit of multi-functionality? (early removal, late killing)
I am really liking this deck. What do you guys suggest for what would make sense for synergy with the rest of the deck?
First on the docket was a version of the Wolf Run Ramp deck that has been taking down quite a few tournaments. It has 3 main-deck Slagstorms, and Beast Withins have quite a few targets. It also has Viridian Emissaries to do some early blocking, or try to. All of these seem fairly good against general aggro.
VS. Wolf Run Ramp
The Mono-Red deck ran over this version of the ramp deck. In 6 games, he won zero. However, there are a few mitigating factors:
1) There were no Dungrove Elders in the deck. Dungrove is a early blocker that is hard to remove, though it does tend to be somewhat underpowered in decks with 6 non-forests, and 5 non-forest mana producers.
2) These were Nick's first 6 games with the deck. Presumably over time, he would get better with the mulligans, etc.
3) I don't think he ever cast a Solemn in a relevant scenario, and he never got a Emissary killed that I didn't want dead.
4) He never really seemed to get off to a fast start. No T3 Titans, etc.
5) They were all unsideboarded, but I don't think the match-up gets that much better for them when I take out Arc Trail, and they put in a 4th semi-useless Slagstorm
Notes on this matchup:
1) Geistflame kills Emissary when you want to. Killing Inkmoths prevented some last-ditch blocking. In the Elder version, killing Elves would be quite excellent.
2) Berserker is very hard to block. His blocking clause is quite good.
3) Koth was quite good. He ate a Beast Within a few times.
4) Could have used RSZ vs Wurmcoil, but Devil's Play to the dome was quite effective. I feel like I want one more.
5) This red deck has almost no problem with Slagstorm. Slagstorm on the draw is too slow to kill a Vampire, or often a Berserker. Getting RR early enough to kill anything was a difficult proposition.
6) Arc Trail was very marginal. I often cast it to do a point to myself, to trigger the Berserker. Having some other 1cc guy to swap in here would be nice, in match-ups where I don't need the removal of Arc Trail. I did use Chandra to double an Arc Trail, when I probably should not have cast Arc Trail at all, but those are the kind of things you learn playing the games...
I do not think this is a 100% win matchup, I'll be playing a few more games to test it out myself, but it does seem at least favorable. Nick was "discouraged" from playing a few more, perhaps understandably, so we moved on to some other options.
VS. Solar Flare:
These games were much more interactive. My draws felt way better, but a Doom Blade on my attacking Noble on T2 often stranded my otherwise T2 Berserker in my hand. The deck was mostly removal, so it really felt like creatures were not a good win condition past turn 2 or so. Flashing back a Doom Blade with Snapcaster was quite common, so the bigness of my creatures definitely did not save them in this match-up.
All my creatures were basically unblockable, but they were all basically dead given any amount of available mana. It felt like I could play something like 8 Inferno Titans from turn 6 on, and none of them would get to attack. Devils Play really shone here as a finisher.
Many of the games were "ended" by Consecrated Sphinx. It attacked Koth or Chandra well, and took a series of burn spells to finish off. It was painfully slow to kill me, even with the infinite card draw. Sun Titan was similarly non-impressive as a finisher, since it often was just a terrible Primeval Titan (getting back one land, instead of tutoring two out). Grave Titan or Wurmcoil was their only real finisher, and Unburial Ritsing it made it seem like they were really unkillable. It was probably a mistake to ever try to kill any of their "finishers", but rather just burn them out.
Ultimating Koth was relatively easy, but it did not always win the game. Nick kept saying how it would win me the game, but playing a Grave + Sphynx every turn for 2-3 turns was enough to overwhelm me if I didn't draw enough Mountains. I was often torn between ultimating Koth on turn 5 with a proliferate effect, and waiting for turn 6 to keep the Koth around. I feel like now, that if they could O-Ring it they would on their turn after I play the Koth, if they can't, they're unlikely to be able to do it the next turn either.
I did draw a ton of mountains, between playing 24, and 4x Tezzeret's Gambit, so I was very glad to draw all the Devil's Plays I drew. I felt like I wanted a couple more of these, just for this scenario, since a doubled one (via Koth or Chandra) would almost always win the game against a T6 tap out for a threat.
The non-creature threats were pretty awesome. They do have O-Ring (one of the better cards against this deck), but it has something like 20 reasonable targets, for their three spells. I kept a hand of 2xShrine, 5x Land, and it was a fairly easy victory. Any sort of planeswalker off that start is pure gold, and due to the nature of the match-up, you can just sit on 3 untapped mana until the game ends.
It felt like the games I lost, I drew 12 land, and watched the Esper deck painfully slowly find some way to kill me. There were some games where I got out to a fast start into a Wrath, or I got off to a fast start into not a Wrath, and those were fairly painful for either side.
Tezzeret's Gambit was absolutely golden in this match-up. It was ultra-slow, and being able to keep hitting land drops, and casually pump for 2-4 more damage was quite good, while building up a planeswalker, artifact, etc.
The SF deck seemed so threat-light, that a card like Surgical Extraction in response to an Unburial Rites would likely give enough time to win. It doesn't handle a resolved threat though, so likely the way you'd want to go would be to add some more non-creature threats. (Ratchet Bomb to "counter" O rings, and the match-up is so slow using it on a 6 is semi-reasonable)
Overall the red deck won 6 games, and lost 5 (all unsideboarded). None of the games were real blowouts, the SF deck has a crazy amount of removal between the Doom Blades, O Rings, Lilianas, Snapcasters, and Wraths. Nick didn't keep any hands without at least some of this, which is likely advisable.
The Arc Trails felt pretty terrible here, I was often 1-ing myself, which is far from ideal. But of course, this is the matchup where they are probably worst. (along with the ramp matchup)
Perhaps the Arc Trails just aren't that great. They'd certainly be better as a Gut Shot, or Shock/Geistflame to accelerate out a T2/3 Berserker, since most of the time I cast Arc Trail it was to kill a 2/1 "Beater" or to power out a T4 Berserker, not exactly blisteringly fast...
Timely did gain the flare deck alot of life, sometimes as much as 18, but the creatures just didn't seem all that relevant. Often, they had so much removal, or I drew non-creatures, and they'd just get the 6 life out of it. That said, I wasn't one-shotting them with an Inferno Titan, so they did often get a turn out of it.
RECAP:
I am sold on the core of the deck.
Counters:
4x Stromkirk Noble
4x Stormblood Berserker
4x Koth of the Hammer
4x Shrine of the Burning Rage
Proliferate:
4x Tezzeret's Gambit
4x Volt Charge
All of these cards are seriously good, and work very well together.
Finisher:
2x Devil's Play
The rest of the cards are arguable as to whether they should be kept or pitched.
Chandra 3.0:
That said, Chandra 3.0 is a planeswalker, she does protect herself, she does combo with Koth on T4, or with any of the spells to do some powerful stuff.
I feel like playing two is defensible, and playing 4 is too many, so 2 or 3 is the way to go with this planeswalker.
Doubling this with Chandra isn't exactly a good idea, and it does only do one damage, but:
1) It's an Instant, which is very good these days (Inkmoth Nexus, Timely Reinforcements, Snapcaster Mage)
2) It is good with Berserker (killing double blockers, and bloodthirsting it T3)
3) It has flashback, giving some minor utility late game.
4) Works well with shrine, since it is two spells.
I keep thinking about this as a "superior" Arc Trail. Sure, it's 5 mana instead of 2, but it's an instant, and it costs 1 instead of 2. It is pretty expensive for the last three, and isn't exactly a combo with Devil's Play, but it is a reasonable cheap removal spell.
I'd want at least a couple of these, maybe up to the full set.
Now, it's somewhat weak at powering up Stormblood Berserker, and instants are way better at protecting planeswalkers. This is pretty good when combined with Chandra...
I'd play some in the sideboard at least, for creature match-ups?
These function the role of "cheap spell that powers up berserker and deals with early drops".
Whether they are better than Geistflame until that is maxed out is a matter for discussion. Neither of these are very good with Chandra, but both are at least instants.
Both of these are good finishers. Red Sun's Zenith is at full value each time, and good against Unburial Rites, Wurmcoil Engine, Chandra's Phoenix. Devil's Play is like a RSZ you don't have to draw the second time, which is pretty awesome kill-advantage.
I'm sold on at least 2 of this effect, and having 4 is not out of the question. (at 4, one is probably RSZ, just for variety)
I'd want at least 3 in this category, with 4 not being out of the question. Berserker really seems that good. With 6 one-drops, I sometimes had to hold my Berserkers until T4. I wouldn't mind having 8.
So, if we include 24 land, and the 26 cards above, that leaves 10 slots.
2x Chandra seems good.
3x Geistflame for the advantages above
3x Reckless Waif
1x Devil's Play (or RSZ) for additional finishers
and....
+1x Chandra, since the Devil's Play gives additional outs? (8x 3cc Proliferates, 3x X-spells with flashback?)
+1 Reckless Waif to double down on the early big stupid creatures?
+1 X-spell, to give a bit of multi-functionality? (early removal, late killing)
I am really liking this deck. What do you guys suggest for what would make sense for synergy with the rest of the deck?
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