Hearthstone - Rogue Legendary Quest

I opened three packs of the new hearthstone expansion, and happened to open the rogue legendary quest, which seemed quite powerful to me.

The way the quests work is very interesting. 

You always start with them pre-mulligan (though I assume you can mulligan them away, not sure why you'd do this).

They all cost 1 to play, and they all trigger on some semi-hard thing to accomplish.
You can't (likely) counter the first ability, but you could in theory set up a counter for the second spell (since it costs 5, you could in theory have a mage secret up or whatever)

The rogue secret reward is pretty strange, the in play minions, the minions in your hand, your bounced minions, etc, etc, are 5/5.  Now, once they take damage post-this, they can go down from 5/5, but it is still a phenomenally powerful ability.

Triggering the quest:

Hearthstone has a limit of the cards you can have in your deck of 2 of any particular card name, so at first glance it seems impossible to play four of one thing, since you'll only have two in your deck.

But it's not, clearly, and here's how we go about it:

What these cards do is let you return your own cards to your hand, so you can play them again, and trigger the quest one more time.

It's important to have a good number of these in the early game, because you cannot trigger your quest normally without these cards, and the quest is what turns your otherwise junk minions into real threats.

Shadowstep is actually probably the most powerful version of this, because despite doing nothing on it's own, it is the cheapest.  It enables combo well, and it makes the minion replay cheaper.  Mana is tight if you want to go off early, so shadowstep is really 4 mana less than these other options.  It also makes it a lot easier to charge people to death in one turn.

The Payoffs.

The payoffs are these crazy charge minions, because you can play them for one or two mana post-quest, hit something for five right away, or just hit face, and then use your other bounce-self spells to bounce your guy, replay it, and hit them for five again, and again, and again....

Charge is really critical, as is the mana cost.  The version dog used to make rank 1 legend did not use Bluegill Warriors, likely because they cost two and it is harder to combo-kill with them, because as I said earlier, mana is very tight in the final turns.

I like it, but it is the worst charge minion here, so if you were going to cut one, this is the one to cut.

Random Spell Enablers:

Mimic pod is pretty good, because it is a cheap enabler.  It gives you two copies of a random card, which means you need your deck to have a high concentration of enablers, because drawing more random stuff is a relative disaster.

3 is the largest cost so far, which means this is a full turn for the most part in the early game, but if you draw an enabler, you're pretty much good to go.

One note is that this does pay you off a bit for having prep in your deck, more uses for a card is generally good.

Preparation may not look like it does much, because there aren't exactly many expensive cards in the deck, but it critically reduces the cost of the quest reward.  It's much more possible to kill someone when it costs 2, than when it costs 5, it can save you a whole turn.

In addition, it does reduce the cost of some random cards in the deck, like Mimic Pod, Eviscerate, or Thistle Tea (when I was playing a single copy of that)

Cycling:

Fan gives you a bit of interaction, especially with agro decks (which tend to run x/1s), and Novice gives you something to bounce that does something (sortof).

Swashburgler is better because it's cheaper, but worse because it's going to draw you something stupid (a non-enabler, non-copy of a card in your deck, etc).  But it is cheap, so it's an okay thing to cycle.

Options like loot hoarder are terrible, because you don't want your enablers to be deathrattles.  You're going to bounce your stuff, not get it killed.  This is also why I thought the Igneous Elemental (or whatever) was stupid.

It's somewhat important to cycle cards, because you only have so many enablers.  Drawing multiples of the same creature doesn't hurt either. 

Interaction:

 

Interaction is a bit overrated.  You're not going to face for four with Eviscerate, you'd rather have a bluegill for a variety of reasons (it's a 5/5, and you can bounce it, etc), so I'm not super sold on Evisc for this deck.  Backstab is good interaction early, and can enable combos.  I liked it quite a bit when I was running SI:7, and since you dagger quite a bit on turn 2, it can kill a three toughness guy turn 2 or 3.

These do combo somewhat with the spells-matter portions of the deck, if you use those (Violet Teacher, Edwin Van Cleef)

Misc:

Dog played a copy of each of these legendaries.  I don't have Patches, but I did play with Edwin and he can be big, but he seems to be much more of a backup plan than a primary plan, and I'm not sure it's amazing really, but it's fine.  Violet Teacher is another backup-y card, and it is probably good post-quest.

Moroes is another way to generate 5/5s, but doesn't seem a ton better than a bluegill, so I'd probably replace patches and moroes with bluegills.  I do have Moroes, so I could use it if I want.  I probably won't craft patches since having singleton non-combo minions seems like it greatly reduces the likelihood of the quest working in the first place.  I've played a couple dozen games with various versions of the game, and have had a hard time losing when I completed the quest.  I was playing with a single Thistle Tea, against low rank opponents, and some pretty random decks, but things like taunt, healing, and so on didn't do much against what was basically a one-turn kill for n 5/5 hasting creatures.

Other Other:

The problem I ran into was not drawing enough enablers (which is why I liked Thistle Tea), and would kind of like some actively playable creature I could play. 

SI:7 is amazing for general board control/interaction, and it's pretty easy for me to envision playing this instead of Eviscerate, especially with Backstab, and a bunch of 1 cost stuff.  Perhaps it's too slow, but it's the best creature I can think of to play a bunch of times.

Fire fly gives me something I can play with the early two cost bouncers turn three.  I can develop, get more copies of cards to play.  There is really something to be said to just be able to do anything whatsoever to advance your plan, and Firefly doesn't cost you much.  I think this card is probably better than smuggler, since it is a more credible creature (harder to kill), and it gives you another creature (which is likely better than giving you some random spell), but I could easily be wrong here.) 

Thistle Tea sets up the quest, but it is extremely slow.  I do like it a bit more with prep*2 in the deck (something I did not originally have), but it is totally a random inclusion.  I feel like professional players are winning on turn 4-5 with this deck, so the idea of spells that cost 6 is not amazing.

Same story most likely with SI7, which is grindy, but you could just win instead.... 

I really like this deck, it seems super powerful, and I wouldn't be surprised if this was nerfed in some way.

7 Wonders Duels Tournament at Uncles Games

Uncles:

Yesterday Uncle's Games in Redmond had a 7 Wonders Duels tournament, which was very cool.   Kristina and I both signed up at $5 each, getting a promo wonder (Statue of Liberty, 5 VP, look at the top three set aside cards in the age, choose one for you, one for your opponent, and discard one), and a chance at some very cool metal coins and a metal military marker for first place.

Uncles had a well-run tournament, they did basically a simple tree structure for winners playing winners and losers playing losers, they didn't match Kristina and I up because they realized we were married, they seemed to match people in the first round based on perceived skill.  (Helping Kristina and hurting me, but that's fine =)).  They started the next rounds fairly promptly, they had about half experienced players, and half new players among the other 6 people, all friendly and good sports. 

The organizer explained the rules well in terms the new players could understand, and the other experienced players helped out with some clarifications.  They had the new players play a practice age one and two, which was fine, and then we got down to business =)

They gave two points for a win, zero for a loss, and a bonus point for a science or military victory, which I think is a good tourney rule.  (It encourages actually trying to win, rather than just denying their instant victory)

7 Wonders Duels

If you haven't played 7 Wonders Duels (hereafter 7WD), and like normal 7 Wonders, I would highly encourage you to give it a try.  It is a two-player only game, with vastly superior iconography to the original, less confusing rules, customized science and military victories that are great for two player play, and is just a really well adapted version of traditional 7W.

BGG

Kristina and I have played at least 50 games of  7WD, perhaps 100.  So we were each certainly in the top three experience-wise, and certainly I'd say we were favored in any game.  (We also seemed to have a better card-count understanding than the Uncles veterans, especially with science)

We did get informed of two rules by one expert rules guy there, that I thought I'd share:
1) The discarded cards are discarded face down, but apparently in the next sentence of the rules, it says they can be "examined" by either player at any time, which they interpreted to mean that you could look at the cards, which I think is a reasonable interpretation.  Now, why do you discard them face down then?  That's kind of strange.  Anyway, less card memorization, which is probably a good thing.  Especially for "The Mausoleum" (at Halicranassus) players going for science or military victory.

2) When there is a military tie at the end of an age, the person who took the last card, goes first.  This we knew, but what we did not know is that they cannot defer this move, like the first player normally could, they just have to go first, which can be marginal in the second age especially.

My Game Commonalities

There were A few things that were common across all my games:

I went first every game.
I would call this an advantage, though not an amazing one.  I was able to set the pace of the game, especially since some science showed up early, and I always took it.  (the newer players didn't seem to understand science as well).

I had Piraeus (wonder) every game.
This is one of my top three wonders (free move, flask or paper, 2 points), because it's cheap to build (only basic (brown) resources), it means you don't really need advanced (grey) resources that much (maybe one per game), gives an extra move, which is one of the best wonder bonuses, and so on.  I first picked it twice, and the opponent passed it to me once.  There are similar powered wonders (12 gold and an extra move, 6 VP and an extra move, 9 points), and Halicranassus (go through the discard pile, build one for free) can be excellent for science or military victory, so I would place that as a generally underrated one for the special victory conditions.

I had three wonders I wanted to build each game.
This is relatively common, but I typically only get to build three wonders when playing with Kristina (she's fairly aggressive with wonder construction, and I tend to sit back for endplays in age three, which sometimes work and sometimes don't, but I will build 4 wonders less than 10% of the time when playing vs Kristina).  I always had some stupid military building, but that rarely matters with my playstyle.

I always got science early.
There was science to take, and I prioritized it.  I got the first circle in every game, I had 4 science cards minimum after age two in all the games, and in two of the three I had more like 6 (4 types), which strongly threatens science victory in age three.

I had low resource availability.
My max was three total cards that actually produced resource, my min was two.  I had at least one yellow card for buying brown resources, and Piraeus, so I could get what I wanted for the most part (for some money), but I was not strong in resource production.

I took the Economy circle (green) every game, and it was wrong every game.
I think this was my most valuable take-away from this tournament.

Economy is a green circle that means if the opponent has to pay money costs to buy resources (via yellow cards, for building wonders, for building cards, etc), any money costs other than direct money costs for buildings (like the 8 gold for 3 military building in age three) get paid to you rather than to the bank.

Economy is not a bad circle, it can be very punishing to a resource-screwed opponent, or if you don't have ways of getting money.  It also encourages your opponent down a certain path, which can open opportunities up for you.  But where it does not work well is when you do not have any resources.

Remember how I had low resources every game?  Well, those resources I wasn't taking had to go somewhere, and where they went was my opponent's play pile.  I believe in the first game, I earned 2 gold from Economy.  I earned 1-3 in the second game, and 4 in the third game, which was absolutely abysmal for a green circle (average of ~1 point).  And I took Economy as my first or second circle in every game!

Now, in my defense, at the time I took economy (typically the first or second move of age 2), my opponent was typically poor in resources too, but what I should realize is that once I take that circle, the opponent is going to strongly prioritize resources, and I am already weakly prioritizing them.  I know my average resource cards taken in age two is something like 0 Brown, and 0.5 Grey.  So my opponent is just going to catch up fast, and the card is going to be worth nothing.

Maybe it forced my opponent into picks they would not have made, but I would think normal people will make those picks anyway, so I don't think I got more than a point of true game value for each circle taken, and I just kept taking them.   I didn't realize the bolded section above, until the last game, where I was actually paying 4 gold per stone, 3 gold per flask multiple times in the game.

In the first game, I believe it directly contributed to me losing, because I had two opportunities to take mathematics (3 points per green circle), and did not, eventually having my opponent take it, which was a 21 point swing in final score.  I lost by 6.

So, Economy is good, but not usually for me, and certainly not for my typical playstyle.

I discarded perhaps 6 cards a game for gold.
Sometimes more, never less.  There were just not productive actions for me to take, and/or I was very gold-poor in the games/had no resources/took stupid economy and my opponents paid me 1-4 gold a game once I didn't need it.

I don't think this was a mistake, but it was a commonality.

Ben's Games

The first game
I played against a very amiable rules expert (Kevin?  I'm terrible with names).  He was probably the most rules-knowledgeable gentlemen in the place, and that's where I got the clarifications I list above.

I started out strong with science, getting a pair early in age two (taking stupid Economy), since I was behind on military (common for Ben in 7WD).  I had one other science, and my opponent got a pair of science as well (taking something useful), with one additional science.  Law and mathematics available to be taken, and I had the green-circle wonder (with 7 points, 4 points and 6 gold, and some other good stuff not available)

So I took economy over (A) potentially win the game with science (Law) or (B) win the game with points (Mathematics)

At this point, I was extremely skeptical that I could actually win with science, because I would have to get specifically the science he had from age one, and also get another pair (either the science I already had, or three of the sciences in age three), both of which are pretty unlikely.  So I played to get the one I had already (taking some irrelevant circle again, something that was not Mathematics (9 points between my economy circle, the math circle, and the circle form my unbuilt wonder). 

At this point, my opponent was locked out of a science victory, since I had two pair of symbols.  Since there are only 7 types (including law), and I had two of them to myself, they could not get the requisite 6 for a science victory.  They did not realize this until the end of the game, which benefitted me, but it is quite understandable unless you are an expert card counter/strategist for this game, since there were quite a few science symbols left, they had the law circle, and so on.

Unfortunately for me, this actually worked against me, because they did end up getting one more pair (since I was perhaps too strongly not caring about science), and that got them math for 6 points, etc, etc.

In any event, this game came down to the points, and they Kevin got me by 6-8 points fair and square.  (~65 to ~59)


The second game
I played against Max, a friendly fellow eager to talk about some tradeoffs of plays strategically.

Max started out with 4 wonders that did not give an extra turn, including the get-a-green-circle one, and the green circle for adding an extra turn to all your wonders was available to be chosen (so he could not get it with his wonder).  He said out loud:  "I really need that circle", and I said to myself "there's no way I'm giving you technologies to get that green circle".  Luckily for me, for the first two ages, my inner voice won out.

I had six technologies going into age 3, with two pairs, Economy (obviously) and Strategy. (+1 military per military card)  I was two techs from winning the game (Law not available for the 7th type), and ~5 military from winning the game (any two military cards in age three)

An experienced 7WD player will tell you that I am quite advantaged here to achieve either science or military victory.  My opponent had one tech (which they could not pair), and not a ton of anything else, no wonders built.

I deal out the age three cards, with Max with the option to play first (I am ahead militarily) and I deal two different science cards to the first available row, meaning that Max, with first action, was basically forced to either trash or build a science.  The other two science were visible in the third-most-available row.  There was also a military in that row.

He builds the left science (5 in the above image).

I said to myself again, I have one chance after he builds one of those two sciences, I have to build the other, and then also get the other one (which is 50/50).    Unfortunately, I didn't think about this very well.  I could have built the science (6), and then he is endplayed.  He has no extra moves from his wonder, so he can do whatever he wants with the next row.  If he builds the left one, I wonder build the center to reveal 5, then build it and win the game.  If he builds the center, I wonder build the left for an extra turn, and build the revealed 5 to win the game.  If he builds the right, I do whatever to the grey square, and then we're in the same position as before, where he builds left or right, I use the other for my wonder, and take the 5.

I was fixated on being so close to victory on both dimensions, that I didn't think about just winning with science in a guaranteed way, I decided to put the pressure on with the military building.

So what I did was trash the revealed card ((left ????), which was not a military) to build a extra-turn wonder, in order to build the military card (red XX) that was under it.  This killed my opponent's 5 gold exactly, and threatened a military victory with any military card.

They built the other science building, revealing not-military cards on top of the two sciences previously discussed.I did something stupid like build the center card, after which he build the science, for the extra turn for all his wonders building.

This gave him 4 extra turns for the rest of the game, while I had 0-1, and it became a points race (which I won, because I just built the points buildings in age 3), but it was an easy win with science that I just passed up because I was looking to apply pressure on more than one front.  I was worried about revealing military in the center or right face down cards, and not thinking about how I could endplay them guaranteed, since I had an extra move and they did not.  I guess I was trying to win the game twice, instead of just securing one win, ha!  (due to the format, this cost me a point, which cost me a tied for second instead of a tied for third, shoot!)


The third game
I played Grady for the third game in the 1:1 bracket.  I had a bit of economy, 3 science (all that there was) going into round two, and picked up three more science in the second round (the missing one, and two pairs, again taking stupid economy).  Grady had me in a difficult spot, because I had zero stone, and he had three built, which meant I was paying 5 apiece for stone, and three for either flasks or paper (but I did have Piraeus for one or the other).  I think I discarded something like 6 cards just in age 1 and 2, for 2 gold apiece, so I was in a strong position for science, but there was no law symbol to take, and I had to spend quite a bit to build things.

To my credit, I did take a gold-generating symbol in age two, which kept me afloat into the start of age three.  I dealt a science to the top of the pile, which I took (behind in military or tied, I don't recall), and there were two matching symbols in the center of the third row.  I had four unbuilt wonders, two of which gave an extra turn, and Grady had one extra turn wonder, but because of the way the science was positioned, he could not win.  He did destroy one of my very few resources, but I had 15 gold or something from all my discarding, which was enough to pay ~7 for my 12 gold and an extra turn wonder, and then buy the science for free due to linking.

He just couldn't get rid of enough stuff.  If he goes after one side or the other (the blue, or the left ???) I just follow down that side calmly, so he has to play the left ??? and the blue square no matter what he does.  Then I play the right ???, and at that point he can't win (due to my extra move), even with his extra move.  I have to get one of the 6's and win.

The game ended unfortunately, because he thought I needed 7 science to win (and I was in absolutely terrible shape outside science), because, you know, there are a lot of 7's in this game, and it'd be reasonable to think that you'd need 7 science, but that's not how the rules work, you just need 6 of the 7.  He took it well though, Grady played quite well for a first time player, I was in very bad shape economically, and typically that leads to a loss (as it did in my first game)

Kristina's Perfect Play:

I finished my third game, cleaned up, and went over to see how Kristina was faring in the (likely) championship round.  She was up against another first-time player this evening (though they were 2-0 at the time!), and it looked good for Kristina, though not in the bag.

She had two science, with a double and the strategy token (+1 military per card) with a strong military presence, but no military cards showing, and her opponent had ~3 science with no extra turns from wonders.  Kristina had no extra turns either, but had Halicranassus to build, and enough economy and gold to do whatever at first glance.  Think about what you would do....

It may seem like Kristina is in a great spot, but there are actually quite a few ways she can lose this game. 

It is her pick right now  She puts the 6  VP building under Halicranassus, getting the 1 military building back (counts as two due to strategy), killing Evil's 5 gold (they are not in great shape economically)  This limits their options, and increases the chance of a point win by them building the 6 VP building, or the money removal not getting anything because they spend it.

Evil discards the revealed grey card for 3-4 gold to try and get some freedom back.

Kristina discards the ??? guild card (1 point per coin at the end of the game), which seems critical.  It brings her up to 7 or so gold, which means one more discard and she can guarantee building anything that is revealed militarily. (and there is one more discard to do it in)

Evil builds the tech because they can (free)

Kristina discards the yellow for 5 gold, because that was better than building it, and critically takes her over the 8 gold threshold for military buildings.  It also basically forces Evil to take the other science (irrelevant) and reveal the guild.

The guild is 5 VP and 5 gold, so Kristina builds it this time, because she can stay over 8.

Evil thinks about things quite a bit at this time, but he has basically no move that matters.  He puts the 2G/wonder + 3 VP under his military wonder, killing off one of Kristina's resources (double brick), which is pretty irrelevant, but the best he can do.  He also gets one point of military, but that only means he's dead to any 1+ instead of any 0+ military building, and there are only 2's and 3's in age 3.

Kristina flips the two cards up, and one of them is a 2x military, that she has enough money to buy.  Victory!

There were two military cards left from age 3, and two hidden and three discarded cards, so Kristina had only a 3/5 * 2/4 = 30% chance that neither of the military cards were in the left two facedown cards, so a 70% chance of victory, and she hit that 70%.  The points were pretty even, so that would be a coin toss if the military gambit failed, but she did everything in her power to ensure that she could take advantage of that very likely situation, and it occurred, so excellent play all around there!

Conclusion:

Overall this was an excellent event, and I look forward to trying to take home some more swag from these tournaments in the future.  I'm very happy Kristina won, and I'm very glad I learned some things from my losses and my wins.

Hopefully I won't take Economy AGAIN with no resources, ha!